I need your advice re: computer software
Ok.....this may seem like rudementary questions for some but as I have been out of the workforce for 4 years, I am not sure. It never hurts to ask, right?
Sooo......
I am looking into taking some computer training to fill in some blanks, upgrade my skills, and add some new skills. I have always self taught myself and am fairly proficient at a lot of basic programs including Word and Excel. I have also dibbled in lot of programs like Powerpoint and Publisher.
The problem is that I am not a real "master" at anything AND when you are applying for these jobs that pay decently, it shows a lot to have the piece of paper saying you are trained as you say......and to also have that confidence that you are trained in it all.
My background and skill set revolves around office administration(15+ years). I have mucho "soft skills" but I really need to upgrade my computer side of things to match my years of experience.
If anyone has some knowledge/advice they can pass along, that would be awesome!!! :)
First question: Basic programs
The first 3 programs I am going to upgrade myself on (to expert level) are Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.
I have been using the 2003 versions since they came out and have them on my home computer. The computer training school that I am considering has courses for both the 2003 and 2007 versions. Is there a huge difference between 2003 and 2007? Do more companies have the 2003 or the 2007 version? Should I take the 2007 course just because it's a newer version even if most companies don't have it?
Second question: Database programs
What is the most common database program that is worth learning? Every place I have worked in the past has always had a customized database so I am not sure if I should take a course or not.
Third question: Graphics and publishing
I would LOVE to take some sort of desktop publishing and/or graphics program training. I think this is an area I would like to expand, grow, and maybe even specialize in.
I don't know much about all the different programs by Adobe since they are fairly new since I have been out of the workforce. Is Publisher used much? Are there one or 2 commonly used publishing and graphics programs out there in the biz world? Detailed advice would be great if anyone knows anything.
Thanks to anyone and everyone!! :)
Comments
There's tons of free tutorials on line for it as well I personally, wouldn't pay for a class to learn power point.
But one I WOULD recommend would be Excel. I never knew how much you really could do with it, until the last year or so... and I feel like I'm behind in it myself.
I don't think there's a huuuuge difference between 03 and 07 versions other than tweeks and things that make it crash more often than not (=
When I was in high school I took 2 classes for Photoshop (back then), don't quote me but I think photoshop CS is the newer one? If you know the basics for any photoshop program you'll know the rest of 'em, but that is a fun course to take you learn a lot. and like everything else, there's tons of free tutorials on line, when I started using CS i had to look stuff up because I just couldn't figure out how to get it to do what i wanted!
but it depends what line of business you're in that you'd need both photoshop, excel, power point and random data bases.. its hard to say...
I have always self taught myself programs for years, including Powerpoint, but the problem is all the unfilled blanks of info....and that missing piece of paper when I want someone to pay me a lot of money to work for them and they want more reasons that just my word for it! :)
I am at intermediate level for the basic stuff but I want to be expert and also to match my years of experience.
Excel is a great program and I have used it for years for a multitude of purposes and usages.
Well.
For your first question, I would say that there are probably more companies still using 2003. However, 2007 is a touch different in the interface. But the underlying stuff is basically the same (for the most part). A big differene will be noticed in *how* you get to the things you use the most.
If it were me, I would *always* go for the newer software, so long as it is 1+ years old.
For your second question. Forget the programs really. It would be in your best interest overall to understand the underlying mechanics of Database theory. Not super low-level, cause that would probably be overkill. But just the basics regarding the relational model, how to properly establish and design basic tables, view, triggers, storedprocedures, etc. After you have this understanding, the actual software-based implementation becomes relatively rudimentary.
For graphics and publishing, it is really hard to go wrong with Adobe. They are a friggin monolith. I would start with a class in photoshop (and possibly illustrator), as these are fundamental skills that will be needed when you get to the more publishing based programs.
All in all, I would make it your personal goal to learn the basics of these areas. And focus hardest on learning the basic aspects of each that will increase your efficiency with the tasks you know. You dont have to be a super guru, most of the time. You can wow a lot of people by just being *fast* at the simple things.
I agree that there are a LOT of online sources - you shouldn't waste money on a class for something like that - just get one of those "Excel Bible" type books and study away at it. That's just my opinion...
Im with CBS. Excel is hands down, the most cruicial program in the Office Suite.
If you want to upgrade your excel knowledge, look into some of the advanced formatting (and conditionals), as well as programming in excel.
Knowing these things will definitely help impress any employer (especially the non-techincal ones). Cause when you turn their flat, hands-on datagrid spreadsheet into an autopopulating, nicely formatted *presentation* spredsheet ... they will swoon.
HOWEVER, I believe most companies will not have made the jump to 2007 yet, and if they had, they've just had to deal with instructing all of THEIR employees how to use the program, so they probably won't mind you learning on-the-fly too. I'd stick with the 2003 versions for this reason, and if it becomes a deal-breaker that you don't know the 2007 versions, you can pick up a book and get most of the changes in a reference manual.
As for a piece of paper saying you've taken a training course - it may be useful for some employers to see this, but personally, I wouldn't put too much weight on it. Just learning on your own and putting down on your resume that you're "skilled" or "proficient" at the tool should suffice in most cases. Just make sure you can back up your boast if they want you to do something with it!
1) Math-oriented, finance, budgets, accounting: then go for Excel. I generally feel that you need to be *really* good at Excel in order to get a well-paying job specializing in it (like a quantitative analyst at a bank basically uses Excel). So you may want to pick your battles here... i.e. go deeper if you think you may want to specialize.
2) Programming, data, abstract things: then go for learning databases. I would also suggest Access, because it's easy and basic. Even elementary familiarity with this is a big leg up and super-useful, so if you aren't that familiar, this would be a good class to take regardless.
3) Design, presentations, visuals: then go for Photoshop and Illustrator. I don't know if it's helpful to take a Powerpoint class, depends on whether you are the kind of person who plays around and teaches yourself stuff. If you are, then I would agree with Carebear above -- there's a lot of tutorials on the web for this stuff. The more important thing is to have some samples of work that you have done, rather than a certificate. So practice, practice, practice.
I don't think there is a huge difference between 2003 and 2007 versions of any of these.
From what you said -- design was the only thing that you sounded really jazzed about -- I would say to go deep in the third area. With Powerpoint, Photoshop and some design/desktop publishing classes. Who knows, maybe after that you will graduate to web design, if it turns out you really like it. Any way the important thing is that you want to build a sustainable *career* for yourself, and it helps in every way when it's something that you actually enjoy.
I think I am going to go with 2003 simply because I haven't even seem Vista yet and I know that a lot of companies are not operating on Vista. And what is the point of taking a course when I don't even have access to the program on the job or at home? As much as I would like to go with the most current, I am thinking that 2003 would still be very ok to go with.
There wasn't any question about Excel, Word, and Powerpoint. I was more asking about which version to go with. I love Excel and defnitely want to learn to be a master at it. I have used it, in the past, for some wild applications that do indeed wow people so I know what you mean! :)
With databases, I didn't really understand the detail you went into...haha....but that's ok because I am scrapping the thought of taking a course in that right now. I have used many customizable databases and also dabbled with Lotus Notes and Access. At this point, I've decided that it's not a huge concern so I am not going to worry about it.
With graphics, I was definitely looking at Photoshop. I am leaning very hard towards Photoshop CS3. And since I don't have the program at home, I looked into buying it and got entranced by Adobe Creative Suite Design standard. I found a local software wholesaler who will sell to individuals and I can get the Suite wholesale for less than just the Photoshop at a retail store. A very "suite" deal! If I can swing that, then I would have Photoshop CS3, Illustrator CS3, InDesign CS3, and Adobe Pro 9. I am checking with the computer school and seeing if they will give me a package deal if I take all those courses! :)
I agree. The more I think about it, 2003 seems to me to be more widely used. I had forgotten about 2007 being on the Vista platform. And since I haven't seen Vista, yet, I am thinking I will stick to 2003.
I have dabbled for years on self teaching myself on certain programs and have the books.....but am still not a pro. I have resisted taking courses and it was fine when I was more entry level. But now I have senior level years of experience, senior level soft skills, but don't have senior level computer skills. I think taking a course will help me up the ante. With dedicated admin jobs, such skills are key....and taking the courses guarantees you so much more. I am sick of people with less experience getting paid more than me because they have a stupid piece of paper.
Thanks Ross, I had forgotten about 2007 being on the Vista platform. I haven't even seen the Vista platform yet! :p I think you are right that most people are still on 2003. With all that in mind, I am really thinking that 2003 is the better bet to go with. No point in going with something that I dont' have access to at home or on the job!
With the whole "piece of paper" thing, I have resisted this for years and have self taught myself pretty well. As I said to Dewitte, this was all fine and dandy when I was more entry level...but now I have senior level years of experience, senior level soft skills.....but not senior level computer skills. I am sick of being overlooked because of that ....and sick of people with less experience getting paid more because of that. With dedicated admin positions, these skills are very key....and that piece of paper makes a huge difference to actually getting considered for senior level positions.
There is no question about Excel, Word, and PowerPoint, other than which version. These 3 are the the basic programs that most offices use and they are the 3 that I am most proficient in. I am thinking that 2003 is the safer bet due to 2007 being on Vista and I don't think a lot of people have moved over to Vista.
I have used Access a bit in the past so I am a litle familiar with it. At this point, I think I have decided to shelf the decision to take a database course since most places have a customizable one.
And with design, you are correct that that is the one that I am most jazzed about. I am thinking I will take Photoshop CS3 to start and the move into Illustrator and InDesign. These make me really excited because I can marry these with my photography. Not sure where it will go, but its exciting! :)
Thanks, sweetie! I think I have shelved the idea of taking a database program course. It's like you said that most people have their own customized one. And at this point, I'm more about design courses than databases. I am really jazzed up about those! woot! :)
It was nice to spend time with you on Saturday. How are you today?
Pretty good. It's freaking cold in our office; I think our hot water heater's sprung a leak.
And yes, if you're more interested in the design aspect, you should take the design courses! Databases are boring.
ugh! It is cold today....brrrr!
I am excited about the design courses. I have been in contact with a computer training school downtown and if I take Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, and Adobe InDesign, they will give me a 40% discount on the Microsoft courses and 30% discount on the Adobe courses. That's a $1000 savings! I am jacked!!! :) They also give your free manuals (some schools charge) and they are all one day courses. Plus they will retrain or refresh your training for free!!!!! And they provide free support to people who take their courses....meaning I can call them with problems I can't solve! woot! AND I found a software wholesaler in North Van who will sell to individuals....and I can the Adobe Creative Suite design standard edition for $800 which is less than half the retail price!!!!!! :)
I feel like my god-son....I just can't sit still right now....I am so excited!! :p
Of course, now I have to come up with $2600 to cover the courses and the adobe suite software. Hmmmmmm........
Damn.....you are right, it does run on XP which is what I have here at home. And from what I can see on the Microsoft site, Office 2007 looks nice and Excel 2007 looks pretty sweet with some nice upgrades and new tools.
Now I am torn!
On one hand it makes sense to train on what is current. But on the other hand I don't have it at home (yet...need some $$$ to upgrade) and a lot of offices are probably still on 2003....and since I don't have a job yet I don't know what I will be facing in that said job. So, if I took the 2007 versions, I wouldn't have anything to practice on. BUT.....it also seems a little silly to pay for courses in the older version. Or does it?
I am definitely torn....
thanks Ross! I know you weren't impying the courses were bad. I never took them and always scoffed at them myself because I have often been more knowledgable (from my own self teaching) than a lot of previous co-workers who had take courses. (and they got paid more because they had that stupid piece of paper) But I think to become a real master at these thngs, some real education is going to have to take place here.
And thanks for the encouragement....I appreciate it! :)
I've actually been fairly impressed by the HP and Microsoft free online courses. They have courses in Office, but the HP ones also have Flash, Adobe CS, and other productivity and professional courses.
I am what they consider an expert++ in Word, PowerPoint, and Excel, and an intermediate in PhotoShop, but most of what I know is from working with those programs constantly for the past 3 years. The courses offer some shortcuts, tips, and tricks, but not really an "education" except to explain why one function works one way and a different way in another situation, or how to use the ever-confusing vlookup or pivot tables.
I think spending that much on courses is not going to satisfy your requirements unless you can take placement tests and get into the right courses. The Expert/Advanced Expert classes I thought I needed (offered for free by my state) were actually a waste of my time except for a few commands.
Biggest advice: don't sweat the "Expert" stuff. Most people with much familiarity with any program is actually considered an expert. Beginner level is "can you cut and paste" type stuff. And if you don't know the answer, online resources and colleagues are a godsend. Take some online courses or online quizzes and see how you do before you go spending your cash on classes you really don't need.
I would suggest knowing the Microsoft Office suite (Outlook/email management, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint, plus Access if you want to wow folks - but having any db experience is better than knowing a single program). Photo editing software is a little trickier and depends on what you want to do and where you want to do it. You can use Paint.net as a freeware alternative to plunking down $1k on Adobe Photoshop or "acquiring" a copy from "a friend". It isn't as robust as Adobe, but most design houses will have custom add-ons anyway.
I would also do some pre-job searching at the heavy hitters for your area (big corporations, job boards, etc.) to see what sort of programs they require. Think of the type of job and search for what they're looking for in a candidate. Most of the job postings where I work are more interested in your degree than your skills, or more interested in your soft skills than your program knowledge. Program knowledge can always be taught: soft skills are harder to acquire.
Thanks, Jody. I appreciate your advice from someone in the field.
Unfortunately my experiences show a totally different story. It could be that we are in 2 different countries and job markets? (no clue?)
I am about immediate on Word and Excel and almost intermediate on PowerPoint. I have always self taught and learned through practical application for the past 10+ years. I have always taken advantage of any tutorials I can find and anyone who showed me anything new or more efficient. I am a pretty quick learner and very adept at playing around with programs. I taught myself Powerpoint just from playing with it and have helped my husband do high-class presentations for his job. I have also learned much through jobs where they have shown me stuff. Unfortunately, in the past, despite that I often had better skills than others, I still got shafted in the pay department because I lacked the "piece of paper". I don't have any post secondary education and have just worked straight out of hs. So I don't have any "piece of paper"....degree or otherwise. As well, there are a lot of companies that test you on your skills and you have to do proficiency tests....but that is only if they even consider you. Most places don't even consider you if you don't have that education listed on your resume. Around here, expert level means expert level, not just working knowledge!! (I've gotten tested a bunch of times.....FAIL!)
I have extremely high level soft skills but unfortunately in this market, you don't get considered for anything beyond entry level stuff if you don't have any piece of paper. They want degrees or relevant education for practically everything. Our market is just too tight and with so many people vying for all the top positions, it's easy to get squeezed out by someone with a more impressive list of credentials. And as someone who has been out of the market for 4 years and coming back in with no credentials and rusty skills, it's a bit tought trying to land something beyond entry level. Entry level won't pay my rent....but they won't consider me, either, because I have too much experience and they deem me overqualified and someone who won't stick around long. I have senior level years of experience (15+ years) and senior level soft skills, but I have no degree along with rusty computer skills that have not been kept up.
The courses that I am looking at are good and I have "shopped around" and checked what is out there. The school I am considering is going to give me some good discounting since I want to take a few courses. They guarantee their results and I can come back and take refresher courses for free. And I can call them for support, no charge. The pricing is decent and they have a business excellence award....so they are no "fly by night" operation. I have talked to them about figuring out my level and they are going to help with that so I feel good about that. I have looked at their course outlines and so I know pretty much where I stand. The online tutorials dont' cover things as extensively and as thoroughly as what the course appears to do...plus in the course I can ask questons, get personalized help, and telephone support later on.
And as far as Adobe, I can get the creative suite CS3 design standard through a wholesaler for cheaper than buying just Photoshop retail so I think I will go that way. $780 for the suite is an amazing deal! I, personally, don't like Paint, but that is just my preference.
I, unfortunately, don't have time to diddle around, right now, with spending time trying to teach myself a bunch of things. I am being forced back into the job market and I have to swim pretty quick. I have been applying for jobs for a while and what I have been seeing out there is what prompted this whole thing. Getting some education is going to get me up to speed on some things.....and better yet, it's going to pump up my resume so I can actually get considered for better jobs which actually do pay my rent! yay! :)